From lsarasua@epo.e-mail.com Mon Feb 2 09:36:37 1998 Received: from E-MAIL.COM (e-mail.com [204.146.168.195]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA00210 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:36:36 -0800 (PST) From: lsarasua@epo.e-mail.com Message-Id: <199802021736.JAA00210@seagull.cdrom.com> Received: from epo.e-mail.com by E-MAIL.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 3104; Mon, 02 Feb 98 03:36:26 EST Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 03:36:20 EST To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org X-Sender-Info: Leo Sarasua Tel. (31) 70 - 340 31 77 The Hague, NL lsarasua@epo.e-mail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: reading a character in graphics mode I am testing the graphics primitives of CLISP (in the DOS version), and since I couldn't find any examples, I set out to write a small text editor in a graphic window. However, I got stuck at the first line, since I can't read a character from the keyboard without reverting to the text screen. Do you have any idea of how to do it? Thanks a lot in advance. Leo From sds@usa.net Mon Feb 2 13:33:06 1998 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02101 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id PAA21988; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:08:24 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts007d26.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.155.86]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id PAA10582; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:08:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA11348; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:09:18 -0500 To: Bruno Haible Subject: *print-readably* and *print-circle* Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold Date: 02 Feb 1998 15:09:17 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 14 (let ((*print-readably* t) (*print-circle* t)) (princ zz)) produced "#S(anls :date #S(date :ye 1993. :mo 2. :da 8.) :slrt #1=0.0d0 :wedg #1# :sslp #1# :asra 0.4547124023710203d0 :days 2.875d0)" (read-from-string ) ==> *** - the: wedg evaluated to the values (#), not of type (double-float 0.0 *) 1. Break> Comments? -- Sam Steingold From haible@ilog.fr Tue Feb 3 02:52:16 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA04117 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.49]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11774 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:51:53 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05996; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:51:27 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA00829; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:51:25 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:51:25 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802031051.LAA00829@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: *print-readably* and *print-circle* In-Reply-To: References: Sam Steingold writes: > (let ((*print-readably* t) (*print-circle* t)) (princ zz)) > produced > "#S(anls :date #S(date :ye 1993. :mo 2. :da 8.) :slrt #1=0.0d0 :wedg #1# > :sslp #1# :asra 0.4547124023710203d0 :days 2.875d0)" > > (read-from-string ) > ==> > *** - the: wedg evaluated to the values (#), not of type (double-float 0.0 *) Obviously clisp does not do the right thing, and you have to comment out the slot's :type declaration to make it work. It is interesting to note that probably no Common Lisp implementation can do the right thing: > (setq *print-circle* t) T > (defstruct foo (x nil :type (or null foo))) FOO > (setq a (make-foo)) #S(FOO :X NIL) > (setf (foo-x a) a) #1=#S(FOO :X #1#) > (read-from-string "#1=#S(FOO :X #1#)") *** - THE: X evaluated to the values (#), not of type (OR NULL FOO) In order to digest the string "#1=#S(FOO :X #1#)", the Lisp implementation would have to have the object already created so that it can be passed as argument to the `MAKE-FOO' constructor. CLHS section 2.4.8.16 is silent about this issue. Bruno From sds@usa.net Tue Feb 3 05:50:03 1998 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04598 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:50:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id IAA00307; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:50:03 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts004d26.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.154.182]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id IAA27995; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12229; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:50:55 -0500 To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: *print-readably* and *print-circle* References: <199802031051.LAA00829@halles.ilog.fr> Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold In-Reply-To: Bruno Haible's message of Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:52:59 -0800 (PST) Date: 03 Feb 1998 08:50:54 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 49 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 >>>> In a very interesting message <199802031051.LAA00829@halles.ilog.fr> >>>> Sent on Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:52:59 -0800 (PST) >>>> Honorable Bruno Haible writes >>>> on the subject of "Re: *print-readably* and *print-circle*": >> Sam Steingold writes: >> > (let ((*print-readably* t) (*print-circle* t)) (princ zz)) >> > produced >> > "#S(anls :date #S(date :ye 1993. :mo 2. :da 8.) :slrt #1=0.0d0 :wedg #1# >> > :sslp #1# :asra 0.4547124023710203d0 :days 2.875d0)" >> > >> > (read-from-string ) >> > ==> >> > *** - the: wedg evaluated to the values (#), not of type (double-float 0.0 *) >> >> Obviously clisp does not do the right thing, and you have to comment out >> the slot's :type declaration to make it work. not an option. >> It is interesting to note that probably no Common Lisp implementation >> can do the right thing: >> >> > (setq *print-circle* t) >> T >> > (defstruct foo (x nil :type (or null foo))) >> FOO >> > (setq a (make-foo)) >> #S(FOO :X NIL) >> > (setf (foo-x a) a) >> #1=#S(FOO :X #1#) >> > (read-from-string "#1=#S(FOO :X #1#)") >> *** - THE: X evaluated to the values (#), not of type (OR NULL FOO) >> >> In order to digest the string "#1=#S(FOO :X #1#)", the Lisp implementation >> would have to have the object already created so that it can be passed as >> argument to the `MAKE-FOO' constructor. CLHS section 2.4.8.16 is silent >> about this issue. So, I have to set *print-circle* to nil to get readable output, right? Is there a way to turn off type cheching at run-time? It would be cool if I could write (let ((*type-checking* nil)) (read-from-string whatever)) and it worked. It would be nice if this made its way to c.l.l (and, eventually, to ANSI CL)-- but I am already the far above my reasonable quota of postings there. :-) -- Sam Steingold From haible@ilog.fr Tue Feb 3 06:35:51 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA04883 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.49]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA18601 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:35:38 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA18489; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:35:00 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04257; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:34:57 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:34:57 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802031434.PAA04257@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: *print-readably* and *print-circle* In-Reply-To: References: Hi, I wrote: >>> It is interesting to note that probably no Common Lisp implementation >>> can do the right thing: Actually, CMUCL, MCL, Genera and compiled CLISP do the right thing (no error), but they don't check the :type assertions. Sam Steingold writes: > > So, I have to set *print-circle* to nil to get readable output, right? > Is there a way to turn off type cheching at run-time? Just compile the constructor function `make-foo'. Or wrap the `defstruct' form into (locally #+clisp (declare (compile)) (defstruct .....) ) > It would be nice if this made its way to c.l.l (and, eventually, to ANSI > CL) Now I think that it's a bug in clisp, and that a rewrite of `defstruct' will suffice to make clisp behave correctly even in the presence of type-checking. Bruno From sds@usa.net Wed Feb 4 11:03:36 1998 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA08829 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.184.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id OAA12612; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:00:22 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts005d31.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.154.235]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.8) id OAA11683; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16562; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:01:11 -0500 To: Bruno Haible Subject: step-on/off Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold Date: 04 Feb 1998 14:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 29 The following doesn't seem to work: ;;; 1997-11-03 Mon 09:37:59 EST ;;; from Bruno Haible #+clisp (defun step-on () "Turn on stepping after break." (declare (compile)) (setq sys::*step-level* 0 sys::*step-quit* most-positive-fixnum *evalhook* #'sys::step-hook-fn)) #+clisp (defun step-off () "Turn off stepping. `continue' to proceed." (declare (compile)) (setq sys::*step-quit* 0)) When I try to use it, I get: 1. Break> (step-on) step 1 --> (step-on) Step 1> Step step 0 ==> value: # # 1. Break> -- Sam Steingold From kehr@iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de Thu Feb 5 07:51:12 1998 Received: from sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (kehr@sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.5.18]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA11543 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kehr@localhost) by sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de (8.8.4/8.8.5) id QAA27872; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:51:00 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:51:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802051551.QAA27872@sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: Roger Kehr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: Problems using CLISP as CGI application In-Reply-To: <199801291052.LAA08994@spirit.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <199801291052.LAA08994@spirit.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under 19.15p5 XEmacs Lucid Hello, some days ago I posted this to this mailing list: > Hello out there, > > I've just tried to run a CLISP application as part of a larger web > application. The problem seems to be that CLISP doesn't even start the > code it is told to. I was able to reproduce this problem on two > different sites: ... Later on I did some inspection on the source code and I finally discovered, that a missing HOME environment variable (which is often the case if CGI scripts are invoked from a Web server), made the (now) homeless CLISP giving up with a UNIX error 9. According to Bruno, this will be fixed in the next release... Cheers, --Roger -- ====================================================================== Roger Kehr kehr@iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de Computer Science Department Darmstadt University of Technology From haible@ilog.fr Thu Feb 5 08:12:33 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA11744 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12877 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:12:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26478; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:11:48 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA29370; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:11:46 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:11:46 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802051611.RAA29370@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org Subject: Re: Problems using CLISP as CGI application In-Reply-To: <199802051551.QAA27872@sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <199802051551.QAA27872@sponsor.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> Roger Kehr writes: > Later on I did some inspection on the source code and I finally > discovered, that a missing HOME environment variable (which is often > the case if CGI scripts are invoked from a Web server), made the (now) > homeless CLISP giving up with a UNIX error 9. It was the accumulation of all these which made CLISP give up when trying to find a good value for (user-homedir-pathname): - Missing HOME environment variable. - Missing USER environment variable. - No login session associated with /dev/tty. > According to Bruno, this will be fixed in the next release... Yes. In the next release, in order to have CLISP give up on (user-homedir-pathname), you'll additionally have to run it with an invalid uid :-) Sam's *print-circle*/structure/typechecking problem will be fixed as well. Bruno From aler@inf.uc3m.es Tue Feb 10 02:41:40 1998 Received: from grial.uc3m.es (grial.uc3m.es [163.117.129.43]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA03536 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tristan.uc3m.es by grial.uc3m.es with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA116017223; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:40:23 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:40:22 +0100 (CET) From: Ricardo Aler Mur X-Sender: aler@tristan.uc3m.es Reply-To: aler@inf.uc3m.es To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Compiling error Message-Id: Distribution: world Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I am trying to compile clisp-1997-09-25 in an Exemplar S Class () [SPP-UX Release 5.2] (a parallel HP machine). I get this error: In file included from debug.d:5: lispbibl.d:8906: warning: register used for two global register variables lispbibl.d:8914: warning: register used for two global register variables lispbibl.d:9077: warning: register used for two global register variables debug.d: In function `print_stackitem': debug.d:1010: structure has no member named `showstack_string_CALLBACK_frame' *** Error exit code 1 Help :) Ricardo. -------- mailto: "Ricardo Aler Mur" http://grial.uc3m.es/~aler From haible@ilog.fr Tue Feb 10 04:06:33 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03928 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24009 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:06:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA19793; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:05:57 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05780; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:05:57 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:05:57 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802101205.NAA05780@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org Subject: Re: Compiling error In-Reply-To: References: Ricardo Aler Mur writes: > > I am trying to compile clisp-1997-09-25 in an Exemplar S Class () [SPP-UX > Release 5.2] (a parallel HP machine). I get this error: > debug.d: In function `print_stackitem': > debug.d:1010: structure has no member named > `showstack_string_CALLBACK_frame' A small bug. In constobj.d, change the line 1047 from #ifdef HAVE_SAVED_STACK to #ifdef HAVE_SAVED_REGISTERS Bruno From aler@inf.uc3m.es Tue Feb 10 05:21:44 1998 Received: from grial.uc3m.es (grial.uc3m.es [163.117.129.43]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04257 for ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tristan.uc3m.es by grial.uc3m.es with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA116485148; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:52:28 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:52:28 +0100 (CET) From: Ricardo Aler Mur X-Sender: aler@tristan.uc3m.es Reply-To: aler@inf.uc3m.es To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: Compiling error In-Reply-To: <199802101205.NAA05780@halles.ilog.fr> Message-Id: Distribution: world Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Bruno Haible wrote: > A small bug. In constobj.d, change the line 1047 from > #ifdef HAVE_SAVED_STACK > to > #ifdef HAVE_SAVED_REGISTERS Now it compiles fine, although it doesn't pass one of the tests in the test suite: cat suite/number2.erg Form: (ISQRT 77371252437321868671713407) SOLL: 8796093021183 CLISP: 8796093022207 Ricardo. -------- mailto: "Ricardo Aler Mur" http://grial.uc3m.es/~aler From haible@ilog.fr Wed Feb 18 10:17:01 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA18305 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23490 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:16:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA12507; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:14:39 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA03095; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:13:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:13:07 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802181813.TAA03095@halles> To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org Subject: Re: Compiling error In-Reply-To: References: Ricardo Aler Mur wrote about clisp on HP-UX: > Now it compiles fine, although it doesn't pass one of the tests in the > test suite: > > Form: (ISQRT 77371252437321868671713407) > SOLL: 8796093021183 > CLISP: 8796093022207 We found out that changing the expression (__GNUC_MINOR__ == 7) in intsqrt.d to (__GNUC_MINOR__ <= 7) fixed the problem. Bruno From haible@ilog.fr Wed Feb 18 10:42:03 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA18597 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24313 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:41:33 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14168; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:41:06 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA03401; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:41:04 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:41:04 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802181841.TAA03401@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org Subject: CLtL2 or CLHS ? Hi all, When you program in Common Lisp, what do you use as a reference: The CL HyperSpec in HTML format, or the CLtL2 spec (as a book, or in HTML or PostScript format) ? I am asking in order to know how to do things in CLISP in the few cases where the two specs disagree (e.g. `special-operator-p' or `simple-condition-format-control'). Thanks for numerous responses. Bruno ! To unsubscribe from the clisp-list mailing list, send mail to ! ! listproc@clisp.cons.org ! ! including the two words "unsubscribe clisp-list" as message body. ! From sds@usa.net Wed Feb 18 14:33:18 1998 Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA19763 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id RAA23952; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:33:19 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts008d03.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.155.111]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.8) id RAA02900; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA17680; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:07:46 -0500 To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: CLtL2 or CLHS ? References: <199802181841.TAA03401@halles.ilog.fr> Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold In-Reply-To: Bruno Haible's message of Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) Date: 18 Feb 1998 15:07:46 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 33 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 >>>> In a very interesting message <199802181841.TAA03401@halles.ilog.fr> >>>> Sent on Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) >>>> Honorable Bruno Haible writes >>>> on the subject of "CLtL2 or CLHS ?": >> >> When you program in Common Lisp, what do you use as a reference: >> The CL HyperSpec in HTML format, or the CLtL2 spec (as a book, or >> in HTML or PostScript format) ? I have both and use them interchangeably. I use CLHS for function definitions using Naggum's hyperspec.el and CLtL2 for index. >> I am asking in order to know how to do things in CLISP in the few >> cases where the two specs disagree (e.g. `special-operator-p' or >> `simple-condition-format-control'). Huh?!!! I am surprised you ask this question. I would think it is obvious that the ANSI CL standard supersedes CLtL2 *and* CLtL1, so CLHS is the authoritative source, while CLtL2 is just a slightly obsolete auxiliary text. Am I missing something? BTW, both excl::arglist (in ACL) and kernel:%function-arglist (in CMUCL) provide names of the arguments, not just the number thereof, which is far more convenient than sys::function-signature in CLISP. Thanks -- Sam Steingold, running RedHat5 GNU/Linux (http://www.linux.org) Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is a question, and the answer is Linux, the choice of the GNU (http://www.gnu.org) generation. Why use Windows, when there are Doors? From vkyr@lavielle.com Thu Feb 19 08:44:28 1998 Received: from wildfire. (wildfire.lavielle.com [194.64.21.43]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA23789 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from lavielle.com by wildfire. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA06577; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:44:33 +0100 Sender: vkyr@lavielle.com Message-ID: <34EC616E.626B522A@lavielle.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:44:31 +0100 From: Valentino Kyriakides Organization: Lavielle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: CLtL2 or CLHS ? References: <199802181841.TAA03401@halles.ilog.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruno Haible wrote: > When you program in Common Lisp, what do you use as a reference: > The CL HyperSpec in HTML format, or the CLtL2 spec (as a book, or > in HTML or PostScript format) ? > Since there is an CL ANSI spec, I use CL HyperSpec in HTML format!!! -- Valentino Kyriakides Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co. Tel.: +49(0)40 / 65 80 8 - 997 Lotharstrasse 2b, D-22041 Hamburg, Germany Fax.: +49(0)40 / 65 808-202 http://www.lavielle.com/ mailto: vkyr@lavielle.com From zbyszek@mimuw.edu.pl Fri Feb 20 04:43:55 1998 Received: from ghost.mimuw.edu.pl (ghost.mimuw.edu.pl [148.81.13.1]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA28443 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [148.81.12.171] (pc4390a.mimuw.edu.pl [148.81.12.171]) by ghost.mimuw.edu.pl (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA22634 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:39:52 +0100 From: "Zbyszek Jurkiewicz" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 13:43:52 CST Message-Id: <737.zbyszek@ghost.mimuw.edu.pl_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> X-POPmail-Charset: IBM 8-Bit To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: CLtL2 or CLHS ? On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:42:14 -0800 (PS, Bruno Haible wrote: >Hi all, > >When you program in Common Lisp, what do you use as a reference: >The CL HyperSpec in HTML format, or the CLtL2 spec (as a book, or >in HTML or PostScript format) ? > As I work in various envirnoments (my own computer, students lab etc.) I use whatever seems to be easier to handle. If I can vote, I propose in cases mentioned use RATIONAL solutions rather than holding to one particular wording. Standards change. By the way, why the pathnames on MS DOS implementation work differently than on Win95 or Linux or whatever. On Linux or Win95 one has > (pathname-directory "bps/cps/cps.lsp") (:RELATIVE "bps" "cps") while on MS-DOS (latest official version, 1997) > (pathname-directory "bps/cps/cps.lsp") (:RELATIVE ("bps" . "") ("cps" . "")) Is there any reason for this behavior (incorrect acc. to the standard) ? Regards Zbyszek Jurkiewicz IIUW, Warsaw From PhilO@dmti.com Fri Feb 20 06:36:24 1998 Received: from smtp.dmti.com (smtp.dmti.com [205.164.43.18]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA29010 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmti.com (172.31.0.10) by smtp.dmti.com (Connect2-SMTP 4.32.0001540) for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:37:52 -0600 Received: from DMTIDOM-Message_Server by dmti.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:37:51 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:37:31 -0600 From: Phil Oelkers To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: CLISP on Win95 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline I've downloaded Bruno Haible's implementation of CLISP and it works quite well. Is there a version that is more Windows 95 friendly? This version seems to insist that all other applications be closed as it is running. Thanks Phil Oelkers Database Analyst Direct Marketing Technology From haible@ilog.fr Fri Feb 20 10:52:15 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA00364 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13138 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:52:11 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA23133; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:51:46 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA19055; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:51:46 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:51:46 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802201851.TAA19055@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@clisp.cons.org Subject: Re: CLtL2 or CLHS ? In-Reply-To: References: Sam Steingold wrote: > Huh?!!! I am surprised you ask this question. > I would think it is obvious that the ANSI CL standard supersedes CLtL2 > *and* CLtL1, so CLHS is the authoritative source, while CLtL2 is just a > slightly obsolete auxiliary text. > > Am I missing something? I am surprised, too: The poll ends with a tie. 50% use CLtL2, 50% use CLHS. Some trend is visible, though: The more well-known CLISP users (``experts'') use CLHS. I will strive for CLHS compatibility, and change the readmes to refer to CLHS. > BTW, both excl::arglist (in ACL) and kernel:%function-arglist (in CMUCL) > provide names of the arguments, not just the number thereof, which is > far more convenient than sys::function-signature in CLISP. CLISP doesn't store the argument names. Each of these symbols would occupy approximately 50 bytes in memory. The memory is better utilized if you add documentation strings to your functions. Zbyszek Jurkiewicz wrote: > If I can vote, I propose in cases mentioned use RATIONAL solutions > rather than holding to one particular wording. That's actually what I've been trying to do. I fully agree with you. > By the way, why the pathnames on MS DOS implementation work differently > than on Win95 or Linux or whatever. On Linux or Win95 one has > > > (pathname-directory "bps/cps/cps.lsp") > (:RELATIVE "bps" "cps") > > while on MS-DOS (latest official version, 1997) > > > (pathname-directory "bps/cps/cps.lsp") > (:RELATIVE ("bps" . "") ("cps" . "")) > > Is there any reason for this behavior (incorrect acc. to the standard) ? Yes, the reasons are that a) When I wrote the pathname stuff, I had only CLtL1 at hand, b) On DOS, "bps./" and "bps/" are the same file names. Instead of hacking EQUALP, I chose a representation which was adapted to DOS filename semantics. Btw, there are new DOS binaries in ftp://ftp2.cons.org/pub/lisp/clisp/binaries/dos/. They were made from clisp-1997-12-06 and include Spanish support and more recent versions of EMX and RSX. Bruno From haible@ilog.fr Fri Feb 20 13:36:50 1998 Received: from sceaux.ilog.fr (sceaux.ilog.fr [193.55.64.10]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA01359 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ilog.ilog.fr ([172.17.4.60]) by sceaux.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA16796 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:36:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from halles.ilog.fr (halles.ilog.fr [172.16.1.96]) by ilog.ilog.fr (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA24772; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:36:09 +0100 (MET) From: Bruno Haible Received: (from haible@localhost) by halles.ilog.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19558; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:36:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:36:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199802202136.WAA19558@halles.ilog.fr> To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: CLISP on Win95 In-Reply-To: References: Phil Oelkers writes: > Is there a version that is more Windows 95 friendly? This version > seems to insist that all other applications be closed as it is running. The DOS version of CLISP, when run in the DOS box of Win95, causes scheduling problems among the applications. I think this is a general problem with the 16bit emulation in Win95. Did you try the Win32 binaries in ftp://ftp2.cons.org/pub/lisp/clisp/binaries/win32/ ? Bruno From PhilO@dmti.com Fri Feb 20 15:24:47 1998 Received: from smtp.dmti.com (smtp.dmti.com [205.164.43.18]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA01914 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmti.com (172.31.0.10) by smtp.dmti.com (Connect2-SMTP 4.32.0001540) for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:26:15 -0600 Received: from DMTIDOM-Message_Server by dmti.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:26:19 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:25:37 -0600 From: Phil Oelkers To: clisp-list@seagull.cons.org Subject: Re: CLISP on Win95 -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Bruno I've not had much luck FTP files I got the DOS ones from the WWW. Maybe you can help with an elementary problem. I receive the file from FTP and the resulting file ends with .GZ - I assume this is some sort of compressed format (similar to a .ZIP file). How do I expand the file to a useable form? Phil Oelkers Database Analyst Direct Marketing Technology >>> Bruno Haible 02/20 3:37 pm >>> Phil Oelkers writes: > Is there a version that is more Windows 95 friendly? This version > seems to insist that all other applications be closed as it is running. The DOS version of CLISP, when run in the DOS box of Win95, causes scheduling problems among the applications. I think this is a general problem with the 16bit emulation in Win95. Did you try the Win32 binaries in ftp://ftp2.cons.org/pub/lisp/clisp/binaries/win32/ ? Bruno From sds@usa.net Mon Feb 23 08:36:12 1998 Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA13722 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id LAA19260; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:36:27 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts007d11.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.155.71]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id LAA05599; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25069; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:37:03 -0500 To: Bruno Haible Subject: (get-macro-character #\#) Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold Date: 23 Feb 1998 11:37:02 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 32 (get-macro-character #\#) ==> error: *** - get-macro-character: #\# is a dispatch macro character why? CLHS says: Function SET-MACRO-CHARACTER, GET-MACRO-CHARACTER ...... Exceptional Situations: None. Thanks. impnotes mention this in a somewhat cryptic way. ACL: USER(1): (get-macro-character #\#) # T CMUCL: * (get-macro-character #\#) # T -- Sam Steingold, running RedHat5 GNU/Linux (http://www.linux.org) Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is a question, and the answer is Linux, the choice of the GNU (http://www.gnu.org) generation. Why use Windows, when there are Doors? From sds@usa.net Wed Feb 25 10:47:02 1998 Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by seagull.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA24830 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from marconi.concentric.net (marconi [206.173.119.71]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/01/20 5.9)) id NAA18829; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:21 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Errors-To: Received: from mute.eaglets.com (ts007d45.phe-pa.concentric.net [209.31.155.105]) by marconi.concentric.net (8.8.8) id NAA23764; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from sds@localhost) by mute.eaglets.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00455; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:47:38 -0500 To: Bruno Haible Subject: *print-circle* error? Return-Receipt-To: sds@usa.net X-Disclaimer: You should not expect anyone to agree with me. X-Attribution: Sam X-No-Archive: Yes From: Sam Steingold Date: 25 Feb 1998 13:47:37 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 14 > (setq *print-circle* t) > (print something) *** - print: not enough stack space for carrying out circularity analysis 1.. Break> What do I do now? The "something" is not too complex. It's much smaller than other thing already printed by this instance of clisp, and definitely not circular. -- Sam Steingold, running RedHat5 GNU/Linux (http://www.linux.org) Micros**t is not the answer. Micros**t is a question, and the answer is Linux, the choice of the GNU (http://www.gnu.org) generation. Modern man is the missing link between apes and human beings.